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	<title>Comments on: To Download or not to Download</title>
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	<link>http://tsuibhne.net/2007/03/22/to-download-or-not-to-download/</link>
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	<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 15:34:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: ChurchHatesTucker</title>
		<link>http://tsuibhne.net/2007/03/22/to-download-or-not-to-download/#comment-2006</link>
		<dc:creator>ChurchHatesTucker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Mar 2007 16:28:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tsuibhne.net/2007/03/22/to-download-or-not-to-download/#comment-2006</guid>
		<description>There's also this article over at techdirt that talks about the economics of scarcity, and music in particular (it's more interesting than I make it sound.)
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20070322/024237.shtml</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s also this article over at techdirt that talks about the economics of scarcity, and music in particular (it&#8217;s more interesting than I make it sound.)<br />
<a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20070322/024237.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20070322/024237.shtml</a></p>
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		<title>By: ChurchHatesTucker</title>
		<link>http://tsuibhne.net/2007/03/22/to-download-or-not-to-download/#comment-1999</link>
		<dc:creator>ChurchHatesTucker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Mar 2007 15:12:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tsuibhne.net/2007/03/22/to-download-or-not-to-download/#comment-1999</guid>
		<description>Downloads play a hefty benefit in terms of marketing yourself. To borrow a phrase from copyright discussions, "for most [artists] the danger isn't piracy, it's obscurity." The more freely available your stuff is, the more chance you have to find an audience. 

I remember liking DJ Luna when I came across her page, but I haven't heard her since. The Mudbloods, OTOH, have several spots in my iTunes heavy rotation playlist. Guess which band I check back on to see if there's anything new?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Downloads play a hefty benefit in terms of marketing yourself. To borrow a phrase from copyright discussions, &#8220;for most [artists] the danger isn&#8217;t piracy, it&#8217;s obscurity.&#8221; The more freely available your stuff is, the more chance you have to find an audience. </p>
<p>I remember liking DJ Luna when I came across her page, but I haven&#8217;t heard her since. The Mudbloods, OTOH, have several spots in my iTunes heavy rotation playlist. Guess which band I check back on to see if there&#8217;s anything new?</p>
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		<title>By: Tina.</title>
		<link>http://tsuibhne.net/2007/03/22/to-download-or-not-to-download/#comment-1964</link>
		<dc:creator>Tina.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Mar 2007 04:29:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tsuibhne.net/2007/03/22/to-download-or-not-to-download/#comment-1964</guid>
		<description>Hey there, you bring up so many different points my mind is whizzing around. First I just wanted to add the conclusion of my quest for right or middle ground is that truly I agree that sharing music via internet is more useful to everyone-fans and artists alike. The stipulation remains to some degree because I have never grasped why artists are doomed to feeling guilty for exchanging their talents for money and if they become somewhat protective they are deemed as selling out or greedy capitalists. It is sadly assumed that if you create something in someway that you forfeit the rights to it because others would say they have the right to access a creation because you canâ€™t literally put a barcode on an ideaâ€¦this reminds me of catching a glimpse of an add for a Green Day(even though I have never been much of fan) show in 1994. They listed a top ten reasons of why their band had the right to â€˜sell outâ€™ including sleeping in other peoples vomit on squat floors. Basically they did their time.
I think that more specifically I want otherâ€™s to feel justified in selling their wares to support themselves. Although I think Matt of the Whomping Willows is extremely generous for offering such money to charity, I think it would be great if he could quit his day job so he could support his dream of consistently touring and recording. If I had a hundred extra bucks, I would give it to Whompy with a guarentee that he would spend it on traveling expenses only. There are other ways to be charitable without becoming a rubberband-stretching until you eventually break. Time is our most valuble asset.
In this era, I think that there ARE so many more options as opposed to hoarding your music from itâ€™s fans. Otherâ€™s pointed this out in Roonil Wazlibâ€™s blog comments including the extremely incredible access we all have to the world through the internet. I have said time and again to my more snobbish friends that MySpace musicians alone could do this; A person whistling a tune in South Africa, records it throws it up on MySpace, a farmer in Texas wheels his way onto the page, he loves it, it makes him smile all day whistling the same tune. Thatâ€™s amazing!!!! Other points like the costs of recording and distributing can be pretty much nothing if you are crafty and burn your own. I also stand by my last sentiments that if you are a performer, playing shows and selling merchandise is the best way to make back your costs. I actually donâ€™t offer merchandise, myself, although I did sell one CD of the DJ Luna Lovegood stuff. I help Darius(The Hungarian Horntails and my oldest son) by making most of his tee-shirts, he has put most of his earnings in a savings account, which is way cool!
EVERYBODY loves bootlegs! Live performances can be most magical, but it is really cool when the artist either gets copies or trades!
ahh...more ramblings, thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey there, you bring up so many different points my mind is whizzing around. First I just wanted to add the conclusion of my quest for right or middle ground is that truly I agree that sharing music via internet is more useful to everyone-fans and artists alike. The stipulation remains to some degree because I have never grasped why artists are doomed to feeling guilty for exchanging their talents for money and if they become somewhat protective they are deemed as selling out or greedy capitalists. It is sadly assumed that if you create something in someway that you forfeit the rights to it because others would say they have the right to access a creation because you canâ€™t literally put a barcode on an ideaâ€¦this reminds me of catching a glimpse of an add for a Green Day(even though I have never been much of fan) show in 1994. They listed a top ten reasons of why their band had the right to â€˜sell outâ€™ including sleeping in other peoples vomit on squat floors. Basically they did their time.<br />
I think that more specifically I want otherâ€™s to feel justified in selling their wares to support themselves. Although I think Matt of the Whomping Willows is extremely generous for offering such money to charity, I think it would be great if he could quit his day job so he could support his dream of consistently touring and recording. If I had a hundred extra bucks, I would give it to Whompy with a guarentee that he would spend it on traveling expenses only. There are other ways to be charitable without becoming a rubberband-stretching until you eventually break. Time is our most valuble asset.<br />
In this era, I think that there ARE so many more options as opposed to hoarding your music from itâ€™s fans. Otherâ€™s pointed this out in Roonil Wazlibâ€™s blog comments including the extremely incredible access we all have to the world through the internet. I have said time and again to my more snobbish friends that MySpace musicians alone could do this; A person whistling a tune in South Africa, records it throws it up on MySpace, a farmer in Texas wheels his way onto the page, he loves it, it makes him smile all day whistling the same tune. Thatâ€™s amazing!!!! Other points like the costs of recording and distributing can be pretty much nothing if you are crafty and burn your own. I also stand by my last sentiments that if you are a performer, playing shows and selling merchandise is the best way to make back your costs. I actually donâ€™t offer merchandise, myself, although I did sell one CD of the DJ Luna Lovegood stuff. I help Darius(The Hungarian Horntails and my oldest son) by making most of his tee-shirts, he has put most of his earnings in a savings account, which is way cool!<br />
EVERYBODY loves bootlegs! Live performances can be most magical, but it is really cool when the artist either gets copies or trades!<br />
ahh&#8230;more ramblings, thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://tsuibhne.net/2007/03/22/to-download-or-not-to-download/#comment-1960</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Mar 2007 01:48:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tsuibhne.net/2007/03/22/to-download-or-not-to-download/#comment-1960</guid>
		<description>When I wrote this piece I specifically stayed away from mentioning nerdcore as a whole.  The reason for this is I think its to early to tell whether how you are seeing it is the truth or if the motivations are something else.

For instance, Beefy has explained in at least one interview that the reason that Tube Technology is freely available on the web is because some of the songs use beats that he pulled off the web and so he is not legally allowed to sell the album.  In fact, if you check his site, you can't buy his album.  What you can buy is a sticker which comes with a free copy of the album.  According the the interview, this is deliberate.  He has also expressed enthusiasm over the fact that he'll be able to sell his next album in a more traditional manner.  It will be interesting to see what distribution models are chosen with regard to that second album.

Beyond that, I'd wager that many, if not most, nerdcore artists give away their albums because they are either unable to handle selling CDs or because they do not feel that anyone would be willing to buy their albums.  It will also be interesting to see how many CDs continue to be offered for free as folks get a better handle on the business side of things.

I think this plays into our previous discussions about how few people in the nerdcore scene have any real connection to mature DIY scenes.  And how this is affecting how they feel things need to be done.

That's not to say that there aren't folks in the nerdcore scene (beyond Ultraklystron I mean) who haven't done exactly what I'm talking about above.  Or that the scene won't move in that direction eventually.  I just feel its a little early to be holding them up as a victory.  There's a difference between giving away music that you don't think anyone will pay for.  And giving away music that you know people will pay for and risk having them not pay for it because it is free.

I am very interested in seeing where this goes in the future though.  The nerdcore scene has the potential to be a very interesting scene if it can keep its momentum.

Also, I'm curious, do you know of any artists, besides Beefy and Ultraklystron, who are "selling" CDs and also giving the CDs away for free?  (and no YT offering his CD for free for a limited time to a select group of people doesn't count.  Especially since I need to send another email to Nerdy South in an attempt to get the CD that I actually paid for)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I wrote this piece I specifically stayed away from mentioning nerdcore as a whole.  The reason for this is I think its to early to tell whether how you are seeing it is the truth or if the motivations are something else.</p>
<p>For instance, Beefy has explained in at least one interview that the reason that Tube Technology is freely available on the web is because some of the songs use beats that he pulled off the web and so he is not legally allowed to sell the album.  In fact, if you check his site, you can&#8217;t buy his album.  What you can buy is a sticker which comes with a free copy of the album.  According the the interview, this is deliberate.  He has also expressed enthusiasm over the fact that he&#8217;ll be able to sell his next album in a more traditional manner.  It will be interesting to see what distribution models are chosen with regard to that second album.</p>
<p>Beyond that, I&#8217;d wager that many, if not most, nerdcore artists give away their albums because they are either unable to handle selling CDs or because they do not feel that anyone would be willing to buy their albums.  It will also be interesting to see how many CDs continue to be offered for free as folks get a better handle on the business side of things.</p>
<p>I think this plays into our previous discussions about how few people in the nerdcore scene have any real connection to mature DIY scenes.  And how this is affecting how they feel things need to be done.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s not to say that there aren&#8217;t folks in the nerdcore scene (beyond Ultraklystron I mean) who haven&#8217;t done exactly what I&#8217;m talking about above.  Or that the scene won&#8217;t move in that direction eventually.  I just feel its a little early to be holding them up as a victory.  There&#8217;s a difference between giving away music that you don&#8217;t think anyone will pay for.  And giving away music that you know people will pay for and risk having them not pay for it because it is free.</p>
<p>I am very interested in seeing where this goes in the future though.  The nerdcore scene has the potential to be a very interesting scene if it can keep its momentum.</p>
<p>Also, I&#8217;m curious, do you know of any artists, besides Beefy and Ultraklystron, who are &#8220;selling&#8221; CDs and also giving the CDs away for free?  (and no YT offering his CD for free for a limited time to a select group of people doesn&#8217;t count.  Especially since I need to send another email to Nerdy South in an attempt to get the CD that I actually paid for)</p>
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		<title>By: Z.</title>
		<link>http://tsuibhne.net/2007/03/22/to-download-or-not-to-download/#comment-1930</link>
		<dc:creator>Z.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Mar 2007 15:13:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tsuibhne.net/2007/03/22/to-download-or-not-to-download/#comment-1930</guid>
		<description>Well said, Matt, though I know youâ€™re full-aware that you and I are on the same page concerning such topics. One of the reasons Iâ€™ve found it so easy (and so rewarding) to insinuate myself into the nerdcore hip hop community is that the line between artist and fan is nigh-nonexistent. 

A great deal of this has to do with accessibility. If, for example, one wants to speak to YTCracker, one only has to hit him up through Gmail. Another contributing element â€“ and this, too, is a biggie â€“ is the fact that most active nerdcore artists freely share the bulk of their catalogue. Both Beefy and Ultraklystron offered two versions of their latest release: a freely downloadable version and a legitimate print version for sale. Despite that fact, I know that both have managed to sell a respectable number of the â€œpremiumâ€ copies. 

In the end, both conventional and nontraditional means of distribution were employed, thereby broadening the appeal of what can be viewed as a narrow genre. The same goes for the aforementioned YTCracker, whom, legend has it, made a torrent of his most recent album available simply for fans who wanted to ensure their interest pre-purchase, and so those of limited means wouldnâ€™t have to go without. 

While these are fairly drastic examples, I do feel that other genres could learn a bit of a lesson from this, one of nerdcore hip hopâ€™s genuine strong points. I feel that this helps to strengthen the bonds within an artistic community, and, in essence, helps to legitimize what it sometimes viewed as a gimmicky musical manifestation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said, Matt, though I know youâ€™re full-aware that you and I are on the same page concerning such topics. One of the reasons Iâ€™ve found it so easy (and so rewarding) to insinuate myself into the nerdcore hip hop community is that the line between artist and fan is nigh-nonexistent. </p>
<p>A great deal of this has to do with accessibility. If, for example, one wants to speak to YTCracker, one only has to hit him up through Gmail. Another contributing element â€“ and this, too, is a biggie â€“ is the fact that most active nerdcore artists freely share the bulk of their catalogue. Both Beefy and Ultraklystron offered two versions of their latest release: a freely downloadable version and a legitimate print version for sale. Despite that fact, I know that both have managed to sell a respectable number of the â€œpremiumâ€ copies. </p>
<p>In the end, both conventional and nontraditional means of distribution were employed, thereby broadening the appeal of what can be viewed as a narrow genre. The same goes for the aforementioned YTCracker, whom, legend has it, made a torrent of his most recent album available simply for fans who wanted to ensure their interest pre-purchase, and so those of limited means wouldnâ€™t have to go without. </p>
<p>While these are fairly drastic examples, I do feel that other genres could learn a bit of a lesson from this, one of nerdcore hip hopâ€™s genuine strong points. I feel that this helps to strengthen the bonds within an artistic community, and, in essence, helps to legitimize what it sometimes viewed as a gimmicky musical manifestation.</p>
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		<title>By: Roonil Wazlib</title>
		<link>http://tsuibhne.net/2007/03/22/to-download-or-not-to-download/#comment-1910</link>
		<dc:creator>Roonil Wazlib</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Mar 2007 03:44:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tsuibhne.net/2007/03/22/to-download-or-not-to-download/#comment-1910</guid>
		<description>I've never heard about the taping thing before. That's really interesting.

I think it's so hard to  balance the desire to be the best musician possible in every way, including being good to your fans, and still being able to make the music in the first place. Your post was a really good discussion of that. 

Roonil</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve never heard about the taping thing before. That&#8217;s really interesting.</p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s so hard to  balance the desire to be the best musician possible in every way, including being good to your fans, and still being able to make the music in the first place. Your post was a really good discussion of that. </p>
<p>Roonil</p>
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